"Wait, What Are We Going to Complain About Now?" - The 2020-2021 Hot Stove Offseason Thread

There is a lot of truth in what you say. LeMaheiu had only one season in Denver with an OPS+ above 93. Turner, meanwhile has strung eight consecutive seasons with OPS+ of 100+ with a career mark of 128. Yeah, he's 36, but guarantee him two years with a vesting option for a third or a fat buyout on the third and bring him back. With Rios and Taylor in reserve, he can get plenty of rest or DH if the NL pivots to that.

With the NL DH a near certainty soon, I’d expect to see Turner filling the role of a modern day Manny Mota, and DH/PH until he’s at least 40... (lol)


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Hendricks got his money. Good on him. Too rich for my blood though.

First off, until I see it in writing, I will not believe that the DH will come to the NL. They had the opportunity to make it universal and the owners decided to balk at the idea. Now, I am going to play Devil's Advocate for LeMahieu and most of what I have to say will not be about his offense. JT is limited to third base and his range is not exactly going to compete with Arenado or many of the present third basemen. Plus, it is not likely that he will stay healthy for a full season. One thing that seems to surround LeMahieu is that he will be in the lineup pretty much day in, day out. The other thing and this is something that Friedman is fond of, he is versatile. Now, I have only seen him play a few games at third base but he seems good there and he is very good at second and more than acceptable at first. My point being is that LeMahieu (or Turner) are likely a one year placeholder at third base. Kody Hoese is likely going to to get a real shot in 2022 unless he falls off of the map. Then you move LeMahieu to second unless Gavin Lux makes good on his potential. Even if Lux doesn't, we have Michael Busch who could be ready by September of 2022. So, by 2023, Max Muncy's contract will have run it's course and that would be LeMahieu's third position in three years. Of course, all this depends on LeMahieu continuing to produce in the batter's box.

I get that his last season at Coors was bad, but even Larry Walker and Nolan Arenado have had bad years at Coors. Thing is, while Yankee Stadium is a lttle league field, so are the ballparks in Philadelphia, Cincinnati and even Houston. The point is, not every game the Yankees played is at Yankee Stadium. Sure, the parks in the AL East are hitter-friendly (save Tampa's monstrosity), but one could use the same argument in pretty much every division. Sure, I don't see LeMahieu hitting .364 as a Dodger, but I don't think he will fall off of the mountain and sit closer to .250 than .350. Yeah, his walk rates aren't great but that could be the coaching with the Yankees. Not many of them were that willing to work many counts and that might be more about the outfield fences being an arm's length from the batter's box.

Lastly, if the deal is five years, it better come with deferred money. $100MM+ for a 33 year old infielder is more than I would pay. I would prefer four years and less than $100MM with that aforementioned deferred money. Now, I am speculating that the Jays will go higher but I am also thinking that the lack of knowledge where the Jays will be playing is going to cloud their offer. I figure it is between us and the Yankees and it seems like Prince Hal is leery of spending again a year after opening the checkbook for Cole and seeing that did not get him any closer to his latest ring. The ball is in JT's court, nevertheless, and there is no way a four or even a three year deal is going to happen with the Dodgers. There are just too many questions. Health, the sinking power numbers and Turner's heavy legs just not inspiring much confidence in a two year deal. But, if JT was going to take a two year deal, it is likely it would've been announced by now. I just think the JT train has passed the gate and he is either Atlanta, Mets or Toronto bound.

First and foremost, the Dodgers aren't going to spend close to the kind of money LeMahieu is demanding. If you look at his career, he seems to be a different player in pin stripes, for whatever reason. He played in the most hitter friendly park in MLB with the Rockies and was barely league average in that time. Suddenly he became MVP material with NYY. He's turning 33 this season, so while he's younger and less impeded physically than JT, he has not had the offensive firepower over the whole of his career. I think Turner brings a lot of intangibles, and if he would be reasonable, I'd like to have him back. Admittedly, he's had some leg issues and those don't improve with age.

Goodbye Petey. Baez signing with the Astros for two years pending a physical.

The guy was a warrior but too often would choke at the wrong time.
A lot of it was the result of being in situations that he simply was wrong for.
Best of luck Pedro

Goodbye Petey. Baez signing with the Astros for two years pending a physical.

Intangibles are a wonderful thing but Turner is full of issues. Keep in mind, until Justin Turner signed a minor league deal with the Dodgers, he was the 25th man on any ML team's roster and he likely dreamt of a career like LeMahieu had with the Rockies. Cut to 2021, he can't stay healthy, his power evaporated in '20 and he is limited defensively. I cannot explain LeMahieu's troubles at Coors other than a young hitter stuck at Coors and hearing about career stiffs like Ellis Burks, Michael Cuddyer or Preston Wilson putting up monster power numbers and thinking it had to be easy, just swing for the fences. Whatever the Yankees did, it worked. Probably nothing more than convincing him that he didn't need to hit a five-run homer every at bat.

The money part is irrelevant, if an owner is willing to drop stupid money and it doesn't preclude other moves than so be it. I am sure the Dodgers offered JT a fair salary, likely less than he received last year but still very fair for a 36 year old with bad knees. If Turner actually expected to be paid like his last contract, then he is a fool. I am even betting it is more than any other team has offered him. Loyalty is a wonderful thing, but this is likely Turner's last contract and he would be among the few who took less money out of loyalty if that is why he turned down allegedly bigger money. I am thinking the Dodgers have offered him the most money but the least guaranteed years. I know some are stuck on two years, but I am betting that Friedman has likely offered one and an option. He isn't going to block Hoese and even though the wonks seem to feel the universal DH is fait accompli, until it happens I will go with the idea that there are too many dinosaurs running this game starting with Manfred for this rule to change that easily. Hoese is a Friedman draft pick and therefore he is golden until he becomes Jeren Kendall. The Dodgers did not give the kid $2.7MM to carry JT's bags until he hits forty.

I get what JT has accomplished as a Dodger and I am appreciative, but loyalty is a misplaced reason to run a baseball team. Too often, we have held onto guys who have outlived their usefulness and lost any value besides the one felt when one reminisces. I remember the return on Ron Cey and Davey Lopes was barely pedestrian because we held onto them way past their expiration date. I am just thinking that JT is too near his expiration date, either by injury or depreciation of his skillset, and it might be the time for the Blue to just say no. Let's face it, Justin Turner has done more with his skills than most have done with more ability and talent, but keeping him on for loyalty's sake is the kind of thinking that nearly killed this franchise from mid eighties (saving one miracle season in 1988) until Friedman brought his approach to the Dodgers. Too often, we were hamstrung by moves by our GM's who rewarded friendship and had eyes blinded to reality when given the Dodger checkbook. Or are we going to say that Ned Colletti, Kevin Malone, etc.... didn't throw away money and prospects on guys who they had relationships with or were fond of for the wrong reasons? I stray here, but not far. If the numbers back up LeMahieu being worth four years and X amount of millions over giving JT the contract he demands, then far be it for me to not buy into it. On the other end, if Friedman feels Turner is worth his contract demands, then he must know something I have not seen. I just can't imagine that scenario. I just figure that Turner has a limited window and dollar point that the Dodgers will make. Now, it may not be LeMahieu, but I don't buy into the rumored Bryant, Suarez or Arenado to the Dodgers moves even though each has its own appeal. For all I know, third base will be manned by a platoon of Edwin Rios and Chris Taylor come 2021. But, each day that JT doesn't take the Dodger offer is closer to a day when JT will get a pat on the back and told good luck with the ____________ (fill in the blank).

Can I ask where the hell the Padres are getting all this money??

I understand where you're coming from when you talk about JT's fragility and advancing age, but when you try to use Ron Cey's career to make your point you are way off base. Cey never had an OPS+ under 100 with the Dodgers, and in fact, his last years with the Dodgers were 134-142-122-143-111. Cey played five more years after leaving the Dodgers and put up four years with OPS+ >107. He often was overshadowed on the Dodgers by Steve Garvey, but was a much better producer both offensively and defensively, but not as good a self-promoter.

The Dodgers finally extract revenge on Houston.