"The Definition of Insanity" -- The 2019-20 Hot Stove Off-Season Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

Norm

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
1,885
Likes
576
Points
113
Age
77
After watching the Astros press conference I will say that I no longer want them to vacate their world series title. I no longer want the players to be punished. No, I've turned over a new leaf. The new me is looking for something else to rectify this situation. I think after their display today that the Astros should be contracted immediately. They should just no longer exist. MLB needs to get to work fixing the schedule for this year with one less team - or just give a forfeit for all of their games if that is the only way. But they need to be gone. We can't punish the players so they get a year of vactaion paid by Crane, yes he still has to meet his payroll requirements this year despite no longer owning a team. And next year we can have an expansion draft for the new team in say Montreal, and following that all Astros players and prospects will be available in their own draft.

Of course this can't happen. But at this point it's the only thing I can think of that would let me get over this...and that's really only because with this solution I wouldn't have to see or hear them for the rest of the year and their owner would be out of baseball.
I have to admit the same thought has crossed my mind, and I didn't watch the press conference.
 

bob007hh

Active Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2017
Messages
232
Likes
61
Points
28
Age
44
I have to admit the same thought has crossed my mind, and I didn't watch the press conference.
Yeah, I would love for the players to be punished and their to at least be an asterisk next to their title, but every time I hear the Astros owner talk I just wast to see him taken down.
 

NewportDodger

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2017
Messages
9,400
Likes
1,876
Points
113
Age
54
It’s really fascinating the lengths that Manfred and MLB went to cover this up and give Crane and the players an easy coast. It’s really corruption at it’s finest. A complete coordinated effort to just sweep it under the rug even to the point of threatening other franchises from commenting as a whole.

It’s completely blowing up in their faces but they will lie until they die.
 

bob007hh

Active Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2017
Messages
232
Likes
61
Points
28
Age
44
I will say the one positive I got from the Astros today was Good on Correa for supporting Carlos Beltran. It really seemed like to help try and get this to go away MLB and Astros had been willing to try and dump as much of it as possible on Beltran and Cora who are both no longer Astros, even going so far as an anonymous source saying Beltran bullied other players into going along with the scheme. It seems unlikely that it was all on those two since it carried on through 2018 when neither was still with the team. So it was good to see Correa say that it was garbage and the blame is on all of them. Though I'm sure Correa's comments won't stop MLB or the organization from trying to keep the blame on guys not in the dugout.
 

NewportDodger

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2017
Messages
9,400
Likes
1,876
Points
113
Age
54

grabarkewitz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
14,564
Likes
2,456
Points
113
Age
67
Location
Fortress of Solitude, La Belle Province Quebec.
I will say the one positive I got from the Astros today was Good on Correa for supporting Carlos Beltran. It really seemed like to help try and get this to go away MLB and Astros had been willing to try and dump as much of it as possible on Beltran and Cora who are both no longer Astros, even going so far as an anonymous source saying Beltran bullied other players into going along with the scheme. It seems unlikely that it was all on those two since it carried on through 2018 when neither was still with the team. So it was good to see Correa say that it was garbage and the blame is on all of them. Though I'm sure Correa's comments won't stop MLB or the organization from trying to keep the blame on guys not in the dugout.
I guess loyalty, no matter how misplaced, is a good thing. But, the MLB (re: Rob Manfred) and Jim Crane will do all they can to point the fingers at Hinch, Cora, Beltran and Luhnow. Granted, they were part of the problem, but the biggest part still have jobs and a steady paycheck. Of course, Jim Crane may be the biggest culprit because something this big does not get past the boss unless he doesn't want to know or see it. Given Crane's reach, I am sure he had to give someone an okay to proceed with this.
 

dsinsocal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
1,957
Likes
1,446
Points
113
Age
54
I'm usually not wild about renovations, but I always thought they could do more with the empty CF area. I really like that they are staying true to the original architecture and providing ample high-res viewing screens so you never miss the game. I love the pavilion bars with eye-level views of the bullpens. And adding the seating right behind the outfield walls is pretty awesome. Finally, providing space to display all the memorabilia is a great touch. If I were still living there I would totally plan a trip or two to the ballpark this year.

https://www.mlb.com/dodgers/video/revealing-updated-center-field?t=t119-default-vtp
 

beefchopper

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
16,641
Likes
3,210
Points
113
Age
74
Location
FL/NJ/Italy
Throw That Astros Press Conference in the Trash
Houston takes its first step toward apologizing. It was a swing and a miss.
By Jason Gay WSJ
They’re great guys. Remember that. Great, great guys. That should be the takeaway. These Houston Astros, they’re swell fellas, and they just got caught up in something they were powerless to stop. Come on! Have a heart! You were a grown adult human being once. Didn’t you ever just find yourself trapped in a yearslong period in which you used banned technology to steal signs and relay pitches to your teammates? Of course you did. This thing that happened, it could happen to all of us.

We’re not saying it isn’t a bad thing. It was a bad thing, baseball says it is, and we agree, but listen: it didn’t do anything, it had no impact. Sure, that makes it odd that the great guys kept doing it, for at least a couple of seasons, if it didn’t have any impact on anything, but let’s stop being so logical about stuff. You and your facts! These great guys here are really sorry that whatever happened, happened—we all are—but we are not going to go backward, because baseball says we don’t have to. Please accept our vague apology, and remember, these are really good guys, who shouldn’t be punished, because…well, they’re great guys. Thank you for coming.
I’m paraphrasing the above, but that was basically the takeaway. What a farce. The Cheaty Cheaty Bang Bang (thanks to a reader for that one) Houston Trashtros Apology Tour commenced Thursday morning in Florida, and if you were expecting abject contrition, then I got a garbage can with your name on it we can both thump, thump, thump.

I hope they remember this press conference at Emmys time next season, because it has a shot at Best Comedy. It was that funny, it really was.

The theme was: Say Something Without Saying Anything At All. The Astros set up a little outdoor table at their spring training facility, and they brought out owner Jim Crane, players Alex Bregman and Jose Altuve, and new manager Dusty Baker, and the scene looked like the saddest condo board meeting anyone’s ever attended. Later, the media would be allowed into the clubhouse to question the players, but this was the headline act, the embattled franchise’s first public step forward.
Crane acknowledged his club broke the rules, and patted himself on the back for firing general manager Jeff Luhnow and manager A.J. Hinch, but he wouldn’t concede that breaking the rules really did anything. He also agreed with baseball’s recommendation that no players be punished.

“These are a great group of guys who did not receive proper guidance from their leaders,” Crane said, suddenly talking about a group of adults he pays many millions as if they were a preschool T-ball club waiting for the ice-cream truck.

Bregman got up there looking like a horror movie hostage and read a canned statement. Altuve was worse. Dusty Baker tried to get everyone fired up for 2020.

I kept thinking: Poor Dusty. Everyone loves Dusty—precisely why the Astros hired him, and had him out there this morning, taking questions on something he had absolutely nothing to do with. It was terribly weird. Even Dusty thought it was weird. I’m begging you, Astros. Leave Dusty out of this.

There were some wonderful moments. I loved it when someone asked “What do you have to say to the Yankees?” because that’s exactly how the question should be asked—brassily, like Whaddaya have to say to the Yankees, ya cheats, ya rogues, ya good-for-nuttins’—and this is, at heart, what’s riled people here, that the Astros may have used this sign-stealing, garbage-banging scheme to skulk past the Yankees and the Dodgers. I loved that someone asked this question, but I didn’t love it as much as I loved Crane’s response:

“Our opinion is that this didn’t impact the game,” the Astros owner said. “We had a good team. We won the World Series and we will leave it at that.”
It was a marvel of logic-ducking—yeah, sorry we did this thing, and we did it for a good long while, which ordinary logic would mean doing the thing helped, but, you know, it didn’t really help. Thankfully, someone followed up a moment later:

Q: Jim, when talking about the Yankees there, did you say this “didn’t impact the game,” and what do you mean by that?


Crane: I didn’t say it didn’t impact the game.

Me, to myself, watching at home: Wait, what? You literally said “this didn’t impact the game” barely a minute ago. I heard it. My cat heard it.

Crane: Basically, you know, as the Commissioner said, in his report, he’s not going to go backwards. It’s hard to determine how it impacted the game, if it impacted the game, and that’s where we’re gonna leave it.

Perfect. Just perfect. In fairness to Crane, baseball has given him a big hole to plow through here, and he’s plowing through it. When baseball decided it was better to get a speedy resolution for a scandal than to drill to the bottom of the whole thing and adequately punish all of its perpetrators, this is exactly what it was going to come to. A sorry-but-not-sorry special.

And yes, there’s something to be said here about the culture at large, and one smart reporter tried to get Crane to bite on this parallel. We live in a deeply cynical moment in which every inconvenient fact can be denied straight-facedly, and true contrition is taken as a sign of weakness. Saying sorry and meaning it? That’s for suckers. The best apology is either ambiguous and scripted or not offered at all. In the free-for-all of modern life, it’s become easy to dispute facts, obfuscate fair questions, yowl “fake news” and muddy the waters with conflicting explanations. It’s now a sadly acceptable crisis strategy to simply push on to what’s next, because attention spans move quickly, and nobody—or at least not enough people—cares. I wish we got more from the Astros today. I’m not the least bit surprised we didn’t.
 

beefchopper

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
16,641
Likes
3,210
Points
113
Age
74
Location
FL/NJ/Italy
Nice to see the big black type at the top and center of the cover of today's Wall Street Journal reads "Sorry Seems to Be the Hardest Word as Astros Hit Spring Training" over a large photos of their two clown players sitting at the news conference yesterday. It is amazing to see how mainstream this has become - way, way beyond being of interest to just the sports world. Great job of putting it to rest, Manfred.
 

grabarkewitz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
14,564
Likes
2,456
Points
113
Age
67
Location
Fortress of Solitude, La Belle Province Quebec.
Nice to see the big black type at the top and center of the cover of today's Wall Street Journal reads "Sorry Seems to Be the Hardest Word as Astros Hit Spring Training" over a large photos of their two clown players sitting at the news conference yesterday. It is amazing to see how mainstream this has become - way, way beyond being of interest to just the sports world. Great job of putting it to rest, Manfred.
This is Manfred's worst nightmare. Obviously, whatever advice he got on this thing was bogus. This is not going to go away and I would not be shocked if talk of replacing him doesn't move to the front burner. I know he has Crane's support, but I am thinking firebrands like Prince Hal are likely grumbling behind the scenes. Hell, the chin music might not wait until April to start. That press conference was a black eye for baseball and it anyone thought the Astros would show contrition, they were sadly mistaken. The even more disgusting part is the Houston media trumpeting that the Astros were so sincere. I am trying to figure out how they got to the point because that road doesn't even exist I honestly didn't know who had the worst apology until I heard Crane wax poetic. Hell, he must've taken lessons from the old robber barons from the nineteenth century.
 

DodgerSSR

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
8,686
Likes
1,609
Points
113
Age
77
This is Manfred's worst nightmare. Obviously, whatever advice he got on this thing was bogus. This is not going to go away and I would not be shocked if talk of replacing him doesn't move to the front burner. I know he has Crane's support, but I am thinking firebrands like Prince Hal are likely grumbling behind the scenes. Hell, the chin music might not wait until April to start. That press conference was a black eye for baseball and it anyone thought the Astros would show contrition, they were sadly mistaken. The even more disgusting part is the Houston media trumpeting that the Astros were so sincere. I am trying to figure out how they got to the point because that road doesn't even exist I honestly didn't know who had the worst apology until I heard Crane wax poetic. Hell, he must've taken lessons from the old robber barons from the nineteenth century.
When Crane and the Cheetos needed to issue a Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa, they tried to get off with a Hail Mary.

Bellinger called it correctly: "WEAK!"
 
Status
Not open for further replies.