"The Definition of Insanity" -- The 2019-20 Hot Stove Off-Season Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

David

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
692
Likes
282
Points
63
Age
39
#2
Great idea for a title.
I can’t take full credit for the title. Some guy named Einstein may have coined it. Speaking of Einstein, it doesn’t take one to realize the fatal flaws in this team. I don’t have the energy for a wishlist tonight, but unfortunately I had to cross off priority #1 with the news that Roberts is coming back.
 
Last edited:

DodgerSSR

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
4,658
Likes
696
Points
113
Age
73
#5
The announcement regarding Roberts' return must mean that Friedman is not FiredMan.
 

grabarkewitz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
9,049
Likes
881
Points
113
Age
64
Location
Montreal, QC
#7
So, sounds like Roberts will continue to infuriate us for another season. Geez, I have had better mornings. Right now, a root canal without anesthesia seems more enjoyable than another season of gut reactions and hunches. I know some feel Roberts is nothing more than puppet, but I think he has some autonomy and I can't believe leaving Kershaw in and Kelly in while not using May and only one inning of Maeda all came from the top. All I can hope for is that Geren goes somewhere to whisper in another manager's ear and either Ibanez or Utley is given the job of pointing out Roberts is a full fledged buffoon.
 

grabarkewitz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
9,049
Likes
881
Points
113
Age
64
Location
Montreal, QC
#8
The announcement regarding Roberts' return must mean that Friedman is not FiredMan.
Walters is a status quo guy, but I gotta think the checkbook comes out this winter. Something has to change the cullture of losing in the playoffs and if you are keeping Roberts, you just have to change the cast because the director can't follow the script. Honestly, might as well outbid the Angels for Cole and figure one of May, Gonsolin or Urias becomes a pen piece (figuring Urias because that kid is getting fat and might need to cut back on the carbs). Also noted Hill wants back. When the man is healthy he is great but paying for like five games a year seems kind of a waste of money.
 

beefchopper

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
7,421
Likes
1,324
Points
113
Age
71
Location
FL/NJ/Italy
#9
What’s next for the Dodgers? Making these very important decisions
By Pedro Moura
Not one hour after the Dodgers’ season-ending defeat Wednesday in the National League Division Series, his emotions raw and unusually uncontrolled, Walker Buehler already understood that he would never entirely rid himself of what he was feeling.

“This stuff doesn’t really leave your mind,” he said. “There are moments that, at least in my life, I can relive any day. Any time, I can kind of pull it up and feel like I was there.”

The week had been particularly hard on him. His aunt died on Monday, he said, and he had tried to delay his grief while he focused on pitching the Dodgers into the NL Championship Series. He had done his part by throwing more pitches than he ever had and leaving with a lead. His teammates and coaches had not. He suggested that they all shared the responsibility, and that they would mourn this loss together.

“We just grab onto each other,” Buehler said. “For some guys, it’ll be the last time. For some guys, you’ll see them in a few months.”

For Dodgers decision-makers, this offseason’s task is to figure out which men fit into which category.

There are obvious last-time candidates: Rich Hill, Hyun-Jin Ryu, David Freese and Russell Martin. All four veterans are free agents. Hill and Ryu will continue to play, perhaps not in Los Angeles, although Hill expressed a desire to do that in Wednesday’s aftermath. Freese has indicated he may not play again, and Martin has also said he would call it quits if he doubted he could contribute to a team.

Among the decisions to be made …

1. Will Andrew Friedman return?
This takes precedence. Friedman’s contract soon expires, but the industry expectation is that he will be back as the Dodgers’ president of baseball operations. He already worked for many years for the Tampa Bay Rays without a formal contract.

On Thursday, the Los Angeles Times reported manager Dave Roberts will return next season, despite the shocking, extreme nature of the calls he made on Wednesday. His contract does not expire for three years. He remains a great face for the organization, a role model for his players and pretty clearly a skilled manager.

2. Will shortstop Corey Seager be a Dodger in 2020?
After a sterling beginning to his career, Seager has settled into unspectacular form. His approach to hitting does not fit the rest of the team’s, as the postseason made clear. He does not limit himself to swinging at strikes, as the organization emphasizes. His aggressiveness renders him prone to slumps. In part because of the organization’s positioning, Seager is a competent defender, but he is by no means excellent.

Seager is 25 now, and he will be a free agent after the 2021 season. He figures to make somewhere at least $14 million, and potentially more than $20 million, through arbitration over those two seasons.

3. Where do Cody Bellinger and Max Muncy best fit defensively?
The Dodgers’ two biggest contributors regularly played three positions this season. Bellinger finished it in center field but is likely to win the Gold Glove for his work in right field. Muncy proved to be a better defender than in 2018, but evaluators believe his potential at second base will always be limited because of his body type. The Dodgers could opt to continue moving both men around.

4. Who will relieve?
Kenley Jansen lacks the velocity and consistency he had until 2017. Joe Kelly has all of the velocity but little of the consistency. Julio Urías and Kenta Maeda, their best relievers in the postseason, are probably both starting pitchers next season. So might be Dustin May and Tony Gonsolin, both relievers down the stretch.

5. Will they make a significant free-agent addition?
Under Friedman, the Dodgers have made their largest financial commitments to retain players, not bring in outside help. The two additions made a year ago, A.J. Pollock and Joe Kelly, did not work. But in Anthony Rendon and Gerrit Cole, this market will offer two of the sport’s best — players without obvious flaws, players who would improve every team.

Will the Dodgers splurge?

Buehler is the Dodgers’ ace now, their young star who has consistently played his best in the playoffs. There are fewer questions about him than anyone on this roster. And, for all of the questions, the Dodgers this winter will not lose one of their prime luxuries: their division. It is extremely unlikely any of their competitors will enter the spring as the favorites to win the NL West. But, of course, this is not just about winning the West.
 

DodgerSSR

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2017
Messages
4,658
Likes
696
Points
113
Age
73
#10
It is
Walters is a status quo guy, but I gotta think the checkbook comes out this winter. Something has to change the cullture of losing in the playoffs and if you are keeping Roberts, you just have to change the cast because the director can't follow the script. Honestly, might as well outbid the Angels for Cole and figure one of May, Gonsolin or Urias becomes a pen piece (figuring Urias because that kid is getting fat and might need to cut back on the carbs). Also noted Hill wants back. When the man is healthy he is great but paying for like five games a year seems kind of a waste of money.
Hill wants to come back to the Dodgers and I would offer him a contract heavily laden with rich incentives and a low base.
 

beefchopper

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
7,421
Likes
1,324
Points
113
Age
71
Location
FL/NJ/Italy
#11
Walters is a status quo guy, but I gotta think the checkbook comes out this winter. Something has to change the cullture of losing in the playoffs and if you are keeping Roberts, you just have to change the cast because the director can't follow the script. Honestly, might as well outbid the Angels for Cole and figure one of May, Gonsolin or Urias becomes a pen piece (figuring Urias because that kid is getting fat and might need to cut back on the carbs). Also noted Hill wants back. When the man is healthy he is great but paying for like five games a year seems kind of a waste of money.
I have seen absolutely nothing in the five years since Friedman arrived to suggest the Dodgers would be even remotely competitive in attempting to sign Cole or Rendon. I'm sure they will be rumored to be "in on" them both but that is more likely to be bullshit smoke generated by their agents or the usual rumors fabricated by sportswriters who couldn't think of any real news to write about. I'd love to see either or both be Dodgers but won't spend even a nanosecond believing either signing has any likelihood whatsoever of happening until I see a deal announced.
 

Petro

Active Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
217
Likes
111
Points
43
Age
48
#12
My offseason prediction, next years roster will look pretty much like what you see now. Ryu, Hill, Martin, Freese will be let go. Neither Redon nor Cole will be signed. My guess at the 25 man roster, our payroll will fall off a cliff and upper management will be ecstatic....

Rotation
Buehler
Kershaw
Maeda
Urias
May

Relievers
Jensen
Kelly
Baez
Alexander
Kolarek
Stripling
Gonsolin

Position Players
Smith
Barnes
Muncy
Lux
Seager
Turner
Bellinger
Pollock
Verdugo
Taylor
Hernandez
Beaty
Pederson

They can most likely win the West again with that lineup (though not by 20 games again). They will again lose in the first round of the playoffs with that roster. Our payroll will not be in the top 10.
 

NewportDodger

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2017
Messages
4,857
Likes
686
Points
113
Age
51
#13
Walters is a status quo guy, but I gotta think the checkbook comes out this winter. Something has to change the cullture of losing in the playoffs and if you are keeping Roberts, you just have to change the cast because the director can't follow the script. Honestly, might as well outbid the Angels for Cole and figure one of May, Gonsolin or Urias becomes a pen piece (figuring Urias because that kid is getting fat and might need to cut back on the carbs). Also noted Hill wants back. When the man is healthy he is great but paying for like five games a year seems kind of a waste of money.
You and I both know that the Dodgers will never touch Rendon or Cole. They won't touch anyone that is elite because the money is going to always hold back Friedman. The guy would rather waste money on two mediocre players like Pollock and Kelly who have a higher bust potential than go after a proven player. That's his flaw. I wish it weren't true but the Dodgers are going to basically bring back most of the team and will get some secondary pieces.

Rendon would absolutely revolutionize this offense. I think he is more important than Cole. Pitchers break and who knows how Cole will fare when you get him away from the Houston drug factory where every shitty pitcher seems to gain new life. Rendon is just legit in every way.

They Dodgers will let Hill walk most likely because the guy just can't stay healthy. He is too old. They have to let Ryu walk because he will be overpaid and I don't want to see them lock up another 4 year guy who has had one big year and is 32. They need to get Urias, May and Gonsolin in the rotation at some point because they are the future of this team.
 

NewportDodger

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2017
Messages
4,857
Likes
686
Points
113
Age
51
#14
My offseason prediction, next years roster will look pretty much like what you see now. Ryu, Hill, Martin, Freese will be let go. Neither Redon nor Cole will be signed. My guess at the 25 man roster, our payroll will fall off a cliff and upper management will be ecstatic....

Rotation
Buehler
Kershaw
Maeda
Urias
May

Relievers
Jensen
Kelly
Baez
Alexander
Kolarek
Stripling
Gonsolin

Position Players
Smith
Barnes
Muncy
Lux
Seager
Turner
Bellinger
Pollock
Verdugo
Taylor
Hernandez
Beaty
Pederson

They can most likely win the West again with that lineup (though not by 20 games again). They will again lose in the first round of the playoffs with that roster. Our payroll will not be in the top 10.
They probably aren't going to bring back Barnes. I could see them going with another vet like they did with Martin. Alexander wasn't really any good so while he is ARB 1, they may just let him walk. I doubt they put Gonsolin in the BP. He is a SP and they need him to stay that way so maybe he is sent back down for another year. I am not sure that Stripling will agree to come back as a BP piece. He is an ARB 1 guy but he wants to be a SP and he really isn't going to be ok as a long reliever for the Dodgers when he can go and start on a number of teams. I don't think they fuck him over that way.

I think the Dodgers will try to remake the BP and will go tier 2 or trade for an upper echelon guy. They can't really rely on Jansen or Kelly to close and Baez once again imploded in the playoffs.
 

derrickm

Active Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2017
Messages
556
Likes
143
Points
43
Age
48
Location
Sanford, NC
#15
While I think it's a pipe dream, I would definitely prefer Rendon over Cole if we're going to throw crazy money around. Rendon is a stud, offensively and defensively. Cole would be greatto have, but like @NewportDodger said, pitchers break down and I'm onboard the "there's something fishy in the water in Houston" train.
 

Shmolnick

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2017
Messages
1,527
Likes
353
Points
83
#16
You and I both know that the Dodgers will never touch Rendon or Cole. They won't touch anyone that is elite because the money is going to always hold back Friedman. The guy would rather waste money on two mediocre players like Pollock and Kelly who have a higher bust potential than go after a proven player. That's his flaw. I wish it weren't true but the Dodgers are going to basically bring back most of the team and will get some secondary pieces.

Rendon would absolutely revolutionize this offense. I think he is more important than Cole. Pitchers break and who knows how Cole will fare when you get him away from the Houston drug factory where every shitty pitcher seems to gain new life. Rendon is just legit in every way.

They Dodgers will let Hill walk most likely because the guy just can't stay healthy. He is too old. They have to let Ryu walk because he will be overpaid and I don't want to see them lock up another 4 year guy who has had one big year and is 32. They need to get Urias, May and Gonsolin in the rotation at some point because they are the future of this team.
I agree. Rendon is the guy to get. He'd be worth the money and would be a big difference maker in the lineup.

But they won't.
 

BigBlaster

Active Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2017
Messages
447
Likes
157
Points
43
Location
Woodland Hills, CA
#17
I can’t take full credit for the title. Some guy named Einstein may have coined it. Speaking of Einstein, it doesn’t take one to realize the fatal flaws in this team. I don’t have the energy for a wishlist tonight, but unfortunately I had to cross off priority #1 with the news that Roberts is coming back.
Oh, I am aware of the quote. I just appreciate the context.
 

beefchopper

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
7,421
Likes
1,324
Points
113
Age
71
Location
FL/NJ/Italy
#19
I think Hill may very well be back on a low guaranty high incentive contact. He wants to come back, has made big dollars already and it's likely to be willing to accept something like that. From the Dodgers perspective he could be valuable as whatever they'd get out of him fully realizing it would be a fraction of a full year.
 

beefchopper

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
7,421
Likes
1,324
Points
113
Age
71
Location
FL/NJ/Italy
#20
I'd love to see the Dodgers offer Maeda a new contract that would allow him to make more than his current base to be a relief pitcher. He's infinitely more valuable in that role and sure is a helluva lot more valuable than Joke Kelly and you know what that POS clown got paid
 
Status
Not open for further replies.